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Cooling fan / vent for facial interface

agenttoffagenttoff Posts: 324
Trinity
edited October 2016 in General
I just posted this to Reddit, but I want to share with you guys what I just started working on.
My face gets super toasty within about 10 mins of wearing the Rift.  There's not much airflow.  Thanks to Oculus uploading those cad files for the facial interface I put this together.  

Tested it with a 12v blower fan that I had on hand and it works great.  

Next step is to order a 5v 35mm square fan, find a better solution to get power (need 5v or 12v), and gets some foam for the interface.

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/57chcl/cooling_venting_fan_for_facial_interface/



So it's clear, this is the direction of airflow


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Comments

  • benplacebenplace Posts: 758 Poster of the Week
    How is the noise/vibration?
  • MradrMradr Posts: 1,845 Poster of the Week
    edited October 2016
    Huh - it looks weird, but how would that fit with the strap? Also, instead of a fan - how about a solid state cooler instead or even a combo? https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=Thermoelectric+Peltier

    Wish I knew you irl xD I buy all the stuff and we have a ton of fun. I just wish I had a 3d printer

    Not to be a dick, but see these are the things I wish Oculus would look into supporting x..x I always said it needed a vent/cooler some where there. As for noise/vib - you could in theory run a low 5v fan on some pretty low settings to the point you never hear the fan nor feel it moving but still allow at least some air flow into the unit it self.
  • agenttoffagenttoff Posts: 324
    Trinity
    benplace said:
    How is the noise/vibration?
    Good question.  With the 50mm 12v blower there's very minimal noise, some vibration, but it's not really noticeable once there's foam or padding on the facial interface and it's sitting on the HMD, and this is of course with my first quick and dirty prototype that I designed in literally 5-10 minutes.   The 35mm 5v fan will cause even less vibration and I suppose I could even print a shock absorber with TPU.  

    Mradr said:
    Huh - it looks weird, but how would that fit with the strap? Also, instead of a fan - how about a solid state cooler instead or even a combo? https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=Thermoelectric+Peltier

    Wish I knew you irl xD I buy all the stuff and we have a ton of fun. I just wish I had a 3d printer

    Not to be a dick, but see these are the things I wish Oculus would look into supporting x..x I always said it needed a vent/cooler some where there. As for noise/vib - you could in theory run a low 5v fan on some pretty low settings to the point you never hear the fan nor feel it moving but still allow at least some air flow into the unit it self.
    It fits well.  If you check out the Reddit link there's a pic at the bottom of the imgur page that shows the first prototype on the Rift.  This second one is thinner/smaller, so won't be as bulky.  

    The problem with a peltier is that it requires a decent heatsink and fan anyway.  It produces a lot of heat too, and uses a considerable amount of power.  It would be really heavy after all of that, and overkill.  I'm not trying to freeze my face. ;)  

    But yeah, Oculus definitely needs to implement a cooling solution into the next one.  And like someone on Reddit said, if they did something like that then it could even be implemented into games/experiences.  
  • MradrMradr Posts: 1,845 Poster of the Week
    True, but they make different types of peltiers - some don't really get that cold and as a result - don't require that much power and make a ton of heat in the process.

    If you ever need a backer - just let me know :)
  • agenttoffagenttoff Posts: 324
    Trinity
    Mradr said:
    True, but they make different types of peltiers - some don't really get that cold and as a result - don't require that much power and make a ton of heat in the process.

    If you ever need a backer - just let me know :)
    Thanks  :)

    I think what would also be really nice is replacing the foam with some kind of a gel cooling pad.  That foam just suffocates. 
  • FunmotionFunmotion Posts: 124
    Art3mis
    edited October 2016
    nahh Ill just keep my big fan on me, no point in this,  and gel sucks, it will heat up and allow no breathing
  • RDredesignRDredesign Posts: 3
    Virtual Boy (or Girl)
    I think it would be better if you invert the flow, as hot air goes up and also you need to extract it and not blow air to your eyes.
  • Superman217Superman217 Posts: 131
    Art3mis
    edited October 2016
    I agree with RDredesign.  Pulling the heated air out will help to prevent dry eyes.  Plus the suction from the fan pulls room/body temp. air in from all around the HMD.  (which should be cooler)

    Just my 2 cents.  =)

    Looks great by the way.
  • MradrMradr Posts: 1,845 Poster of the Week
    edited October 2016
    Maybe do something like this instead? On the OP readit post - he also said maybe just have to invert instead. Simply flip the fan around would do that.
  • agenttoffagenttoff Posts: 324
    Trinity
    edited October 2016
    Yeah, I already mentioned on reddit that I could probably reverse the airflow to pull air out of the headset rather than blow it in.   The problem I face there is that it would require a more powerful fan than I planned on using.  I'm running my 12v 50mm 11cfm blower at 5v, which still pushes a decent amount of air in, but it doesn't do as well pulling air out.  running it at 12v, it works, but then the vibration and noise are unacceptable (at 5v it's quiet and the vibration is not noticeable), and a 50mm fan is larger than I was hoping to use (latest plan was to use 16mm 0.45cfm).  But I'll have to do more testing.  It's possible, just have to use the right kind of fan/design.   if I shorten the vent, to where the fan is pulling directly from one outlet then that might work.  
  • agenttoffagenttoff Posts: 324
    Trinity
    edited October 2016
    Okay, I'm testing a design I created last night of the fan pulling air out rather than in.  Actually in Virtual Desktop right now.  Testing it at 10v.  It actually works incredibly well.  Feels even better than the first design pushing air... but the noise is unacceptable, and I'd like to use 5v so there are more options powering it.   Tiny blower fans are really expensive, so I'll have to do more testing/designing before deciding which to buy/test.

    Edit:  As for the noise...I don't actually feel any vibration, but it is loud.  I have some TPU filament that I could print a gasket from and see if that helps.  The fan is directly on hollow plastic, so it's easily resonating the sound.  
  • MradrMradr Posts: 1,845 Poster of the Week
    edited October 2016
    For usb power I am guessing?

    https://www.quietpc.com/gel-silent4
    https://www.quietpc.com/nf-a4x10

    They're just  Nocta fans, so should be able to get a hold of them anywhere, but they have some pretty low db. For volate - most fans will want at least 12volts - but I guess you could always just cap v up a bit.

    Can I get the specs sounds levels you are looking for? Even the CFM? Maybe I can help search for some better fans?
  • agenttoffagenttoff Posts: 324
    Trinity
    Mradr said:
    For usb power I am guessing?

    https://www.quietpc.com/gel-silent4
    https://www.quietpc.com/nf-a4x10

    They're just  Nocta fans, so should be able to get a hold of them anywhere, but they have some pretty low db. For volate - most fans will want at least 12volts - but I guess you could always just cap v up a bit.

    Can I get the specs sounds levels you are looking for? Even the CFM? Maybe I can help search for some better fans?
    Those are axial fans though, whereas I'm using blower or centrifugal fans.  I'm not sure about CFM without more testing.  I'm guessing 3-4CFM would be enough.   I'll have to play with the TPU to see if that helps sound levels, but I have a few projects I'm working on for the TPU and I wanted to hold off swapping out my filament for it until I have those ready to print as well.  TPU is annoying to work with.  
  • agenttoffagenttoff Posts: 324
    Trinity
    I'd like to test a couple of these http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=209320869&uq=636121357600528009 but it'll get too expensive to just keep buying random fans to test.  
  • ChatsuboChatsubo Posts: 4
    Virtual Boy (or Girl)
    Please correct me if I'm wrong, but just having vents with enough angle to keep the light out might already do the trick? In the very least you'll get warm air rising and escaping through the top, thus allowing cooler air to enter from the nose. This might only be a partial fix but IMHO it may actually help without a fan.
  • agenttoffagenttoff Posts: 324
    Trinity
    @chatsubo Unfortunately, it doesn't help.  I've created an interface with lots of vents around the interface, and without air actively circulating it doesn't make a noticeable improvement.  A few weeks ago I tested the system with the fan pulling rather than pushing air in, and it's probably the way to go, because it's the least bothersome, but after testing for a decent length of time I found that my face was still burning.  I realized that it's mostly down to the foam and its lack of breathability.  
    The foam I'm using on my printed interface is a medical foam, similar in density to the stock foam.  I have noticed slightly less burning, but it's still suffocating.  I haven't really had time to do any more, but I've got a few things in mind to try.  
  • WarblokeWarbloke Posts: 931 Poster of the Week
    edited November 2016
    I see it has already been said, but I would have thought (being a contact lens wearer) that air blowing at my eyes would dry them out and become a problem.  Sucking instead of blowing I see you decided makes more sense.

    Other than that, I think anything that adds extra weight and extra noise creates its own discomfort, so it would be a choice for those who find the heat build up as the greater discomfort.

    I suspect a redesign of the entire hmd including head strap is the way to go - focusing more on breathable materials that let air in and out, but no light.
    "You can't believe everything you read on the Internet " :- Abraham Lincoln 
  • agenttoffagenttoff Posts: 324
    Trinity
    Focusing more on breathable materials is probably the way to go.  Right now the foam used is far too dense, and it's just completely sealing your pores.  I believe that's why a lot of us feel a burning sensation.  

    As far as weight goes for a fan/vent system.  What I've printed weighs next to nothing as it's entirely hollow and only 1mm thick, and the small fan doesn't add any noticeable weight either.    
    The tiny tiny fans I was looking at wouldn't weigh a thing, but how effective they would be I'm not sure, but of course I agree, adding any amount of weight isn't the ideal solution.

    The noise and vibrations.  I ran my test fans at various voltages, and running around 5 volts the noise was barely audible.  I had to listen for it, and I didn't feel the vibrations.  At 12v it was very annoying.  This was with the vent system sitting directly on the headset and not isolated with a gasket, which is what I intended to do.  


  • SiilkSiilk Posts: 49
    Lawnmower Man (or Woman)
    OMG, I sooooo need this! It gets really hot and sweaty inside the HMD when playing stand-up or roomscale with a lot of motion involved. Especially so during some ... ahem ... spirited gameplay moments and exciting videos, if you know what I mean.

    Let us know if you'll be doing a kickstarter for this. :)
  • SharpfishSharpfish Posts: 1,228 Poster of the Week
    Why did I hear no new news on what the new facial interface was fitted to the NEW rift sku? It was meant to be improved, in what way and if it's that much better are we able to buy it from oculus?
    EX DK2, EX VIVE, EX PSVR, Current RIFT CV1 owner dreaming of GEN 2 | VR developer | etc
  • LitespeedLitespeed Posts: 257
    Nexus 6
    Any issues with dry or irritated eyes due to the air stream? I'd expect that to be a problem.
  • SiilkSiilk Posts: 49
    Lawnmower Man (or Woman)
    Litespeed said:
    Any issues with dry or irritated eyes due to the air stream? I'd expect that to be a problem.
    Unless the air stream is hitting you directly in the eye it shouldn't be a big problem.
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