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Risking my Rift

BrixmisBrixmis Posts: 656
Trinity
edited April 15 in General
I've just dropped my Rift off at the UPS collection point, off for replacement.

However, I nearly didn't. Why have these transport services suddenly adopted the policy of not providing any evidence that a package has been collected or dropped off? I've noticed it with three different carriers this year - not one will give any kind of receipt, they all say - oh, it will come onto the system when it's scanned (either by the driver or at the depot).

This is just wrong. I've just left £500 worth of Rift at a shop that I have visited for the first time, with no proof whatsoever that I have done so. To say I feel uneasy about it would be a gross understatement. The worst thing is that the people you leave it with or pick it up behave all insulted when you enquire about a receipt or some form of acknowledgement of taking it from you.

They should be legally bound to do so - and they should feel obliged to give you something by way of a receipt, I know I would definitely have no qualms about doing so if someone was entrusting me with their valuable stuff.
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  • KillCardKillCard Posts: 920 Poster of the Week
    edited April 15
    Brixmis said:
    I've just dropped my Rift off at the UPS collection point, off for replacement.

    However, I nearly didn't. Why have these transport services suddenly adopted the policy of not providing any evidence that a package has been collected or dropped off? I've noticed it with three different carriers this year - not one will give any kind of receipt, they all say - oh, it will come onto the system when it's scanned (either by the driver or at the depot).

    This is just wrong. I've just left £500 worth of Rift at a shop that I have visited for the first time, with no proof whatsoever that I have done so. To say I feel uneasy about it would be a gross understatement. The worst thing is that the people you leave it with or pick it up behave all insulted when you enquire about a receipt or some form of acknowledgement of taking it from you.

    They should be legally bound to do so - and they should feel obliged to give you something by way of a receipt, I know I would definitely have no qualms about doing so if someone was entrusting me with their valuable stuff.
    Yea, I went through this with FedEx myself when I had to RMA. Totally understand where you're coming from ...

    I had never posted anything of this size in my entire life up to that point and when the lady just put it into the back of her van and drove off without even labeling it in front of me, I started to worry that it was going to go unlabled to the drop off point and then what? What do they do with an unlabeled/mislabled package? There was no reciept, no name of the driver .. what if it was some kind of scam artist who just takes all of the packages and runs off with it! (yea, crazy thoughts happen when you start to get anxious).

    Gladly that wasn't the case, whatever they do to properly label the package was done later behind closed doors, but that was a shitload of anxiety that we shouldn't have to experience especially when posting something so expensive. They really should have better protocol with pickups than they do, that peace of mind will go a long way.
  • stackersstackers Posts: 12
    Virtual Boy (or Girl)
    UPS didn't provide evidence for my RMA either, however you can track the progress of the return and replacement delivery using the tracking info.

    What I found bizarre about UPS is when you sign-up for an account they send you a PIN by snail mail.....which is great if you still live in the 90's!
  • KillCardKillCard Posts: 920 Poster of the Week
    edited April 15
    stackers said:
    UPS didn't provide evidence for my RMA either, however you can track the progress of the return and replacement delivery using the tracking info.
    Yea, I got the tracking info and everything but it takes them about a day to update the Tracker for when it even says it was picked up. Something that makes it even more stressful because you think .. "it was just picked up now, why isnt it updated now".

    Don't get me wrong, everything goes smoothly .. it's just that the customer isn't informed enough that things are going smoothly. It's really stressful when this really expensive item has to go away and if it somehow went "poof" in the process you would have nothing to show for it.

    They just need to be better at informing the customer about the process and give some kind of proof/receipt so that the customer will have some kind of power to protect themselves in the unlikely event that something really did go wrong.
  • blanesblanes Posts: 1,024 Poster of the Week
    I know how you feel, my Rift was replaced couple of weeks back,  the process was smooth and the FedEx picked up from my home earlier than expected which was good for me.  But I had the same strange response when he picked it up and I asked for some form of receipt, he looked at me with a grimace like I was asking something really strange and told me not to worry it would be on the system in couple of minutes.  It actually took over an hour and I started to wonder what if it never got scanned in, I had no proof I had actually sent it.  There definitely needs to be a standard receipt given to you when you hand over such an expensive piece of kit, for protection of sender & receiver. After all they require you to sign for it upon delivery so it should work both ways.
  • falken76falken76 Posts: 1,382 Poster of the Week
    All you need is the tracking number.  They issue what are called RS tags.  Return service tags.  Those can only be obtained by the shipper setting up the pick up.  The first 6 digits on the tracking number following the "1z" on UPS tracking is the UPS account number that belongs to oculus.  I'm sure the other couriers are similar.  If no tracking ever appears, so long as you wrote down the tracking number, you have the number that proves that Oculus created the tracking number that informed UPS/FedEx to come pick up from your house in the first place.  Nobody but Oculus could issue that tracking number, nobody.

    The tracking number IS your receipt.
  • BrockKaneBrockKane Posts: 95
    Hiro Protagonist
    You can ask for a receipt also, I do believe.
  • BrixmisBrixmis Posts: 656
    Trinity
    edited April 15
    falken76 said:
    All you need is the tracking number.  They issue what are called RS tags.  Return service tags.  Those can only be obtained by the shipper setting up the pick up.  The first 6 digits on the tracking number following the "1z" on UPS tracking is the UPS account number that belongs to oculus.  I'm sure the other couriers are similar.  If no tracking ever appears, so long as you wrote down the tracking number, you have the number that proves that Oculus created the tracking number that informed UPS/FedEx to come pick up from your house in the first place.  Nobody but Oculus could issue that tracking number, nobody.

    The tracking number IS your receipt.
    As I said, I was required to drop it off at a local shop (an "Access Point") and they don't give out receipts - same as the UPS driver who collected from me once didn't, but I know him well enough by now to trust him a little.

    Point being, if it had gone AWOL from the shop ( or thereafter if it hadn't been scanned), I would have zero proof that I had dropped it off.
    Legally, I wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

    As it is, the tracking info has just come up - and is a perfect example of why I'm sceptical. It says I dropped it off at 12:35 and it is still at the AP. The items are collected at 11:00am each day - which is why I made sure I dropped it off there in plenty of time - at 08:45 to be precise.

    So it wasn't picked up at 11:00 and now will not go until Tuesday, due to the holidays. So no, it hasn't gone missing - but I can't say I am happy with how things have gone thus far. Good job I have accepted the Rift being away for around 3 weeks (should be about 2, but I added on a week for the usual hold-ups). I could have had another few days use of it before sending it, though :/
  • elbofforelboffor Posts: 2,051 Valuable Player
    When i rma'd my touch controllers, i dropped it iff and they colied the details and made sure i had a drop off receipt.

    If in doubt tho, take a picture of the box before hand. And a picture of the box with the person you are dropping it iff with. Might not be instantly legally binding but its better than nothing.
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  • reddeath360reddeath360 Posts: 341
    Art3mis
    usps always gives you something and is the only shipping I use
  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 21,377 Oculus Staff
    edited April 15
    If you used a label provided by Oculus, then we track it on the back end. There is no need to worry.
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  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 3,182 Valuable Player
    I am not sure I like the idea of Oculus tracking back ends @cybereality ; :o
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  • lovethislovethis Posts: 3,017 Poster of the Week
    edited April 15
    If you used a label provided by Oculus, then we track it on the back end. There is no need to worry.
    So what if the shop says you never dropped it off? What happens then? I think the OP is meaning how can you prove you handed it over in the first place.  
  • KillCardKillCard Posts: 920 Poster of the Week
    edited April 16
    Yea, once its on the system and clearly moving when you observe the tracking number you can stop sweating without issue.

    The problem is in the time-gap between them picking it up and the tracking number actually updating to reflect that.

    Given that the person just picks it up and moves on really quickly, doesnt give you a receipt, doesnt really tell you anything you dont already know (check the tracking number).

    Then .. however long it takes to reach the depot and have them update the tracker .. that amount of time you are completely in the dark with no evidence to back yourself up whatsoever. If that tracking number never updates .. because the person who took your package stuffed up and didnt register it .. registered it wrong .. labeled it wrong .. how are you going to prove it?

    Another way to look at it is, there is a clear weakness in security here. If that driver was a malicious person he COULD just take your package, hide it somewhere, not update the system and claim it was never recieved and that when they arrived for pickup nobody was home. They say they left a note in the front door .. nobody recieved it .. it flew away in the wind or something.. they COULD make up whatever the hell they wanted here and I don't see how I could possibly prove one way or the other.
  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 21,377 Oculus Staff
    edited April 16
    I'm pretty sure the UPS clerk isn't going to risk their job to steal a non-working headset.
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  • lovethislovethis Posts: 3,017 Poster of the Week
    edited April 16
    I'm pretty sure the UPS clerk isn't going to risk their job to steal a non-working headset.
    You would be surprised just how many parcels do go missing for whatever reason. I sent something back recently and the shopkeeper told me to just put the parcel in the corner of the shop. I was a bit uncomfortable about this because it wasn't taken behind the counter. I called back to the shop 15 mins later pretending I'd forgot to buy something and saw my parcel still in the corner with the shopkeeper nowhere to be seen. When he came out from the back I insisted he take the parcel through to the back or put it behind the counter. 

    I think what people are saying here is what would happen in a case where it went missing before it was tracked. Off course it's not something that happens regular, but it can and does happen sometimes. Would you just lose your £500 you spent on your headset if that were to happen?
  • KillCardKillCard Posts: 920 Poster of the Week
    edited April 16
    I'm pretty sure the UPS clerk isn't going to risk their job to steal a non-working headset.
    Yea, I mean that makes sense. But as a customer you're still in the dark, theres plenty of logical reasons why it would never happen .. but no PROOF that it would never happen and no PROOF to back you up in the unlikely case that it does happen. Whether it be from a malicious person or someone who just stuffed up due to human error (which is far more likely).

    It just seems to me like there is a security hole here where the consumer is not protected when they should be. At the very least for peace of mind for the customer so they just aren't left in the dark.
  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 21,377 Oculus Staff
    Usually, at least at UPS Stores I've been to, when you drop something off that's been pre-paid for you can request a receipt when they scan it in to the computer. I believe that would be the solution.
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  • BrixmisBrixmis Posts: 656
    Trinity
    edited April 16
    Yes, thats pretty much the gist, guys. I always ask for a receipt, though, but always get the same response.

    It was very similar to what lovethis said, He asked me to put it down behind the counter, which I did, but the end of the counter was open, and right next to the open door of the shop. It's also in an area known for petty crime.

    I'm not trying to suggest that the guys are all corrupt or dishonest, but if someone had grabbed it and done a runner, would the shopkeeper have owned up to being negligent?

    At the end of the day, its peace of mind.
  • BrixmisBrixmis Posts: 656
    Trinity
    edited April 20
    Here we are, 5 days later, and it's as if my Rift was taken in and vanished - not a single update in 5 days.

    On the main page they state that if the package is not going to be scanned for more than a day, information will be given as to when they next expect it to be scanned. There is no such information.

    Yet in "myUPS" account section, it just says that the package is under way in the UPS system. For 5 days? (7 if you count the two days it sat at the local collection point). Even writing off Monday for Easter, there still should be some info - what's the point of tracking?

    I could have got it to Holland on my bicycle in that time. What I dislike is that there is no contact info on the site and no way to say "what's going on, please?".

    One thing I do know is that I will never use UPS for my own deliveries. I used them once to send my Warthog to Bulgaria last year, and the updates then were also severely lacking - but they did get it there in less time than this Rift is taking to get just across the channel to Holland.

    btw if Rift 2 is released I will get it from Amazon.
  • lovethislovethis Posts: 3,017 Poster of the Week
    I think DPD is the best delivery company. They even let you know when your parcel is going to be delivered so your not sat in waiting all day. I also use My Hermes because you can have the parcel insured for the full amount, get a receipt from the collection point and it is tracked all the way. 
  • KillCardKillCard Posts: 920 Poster of the Week
    Brixmis said:
    Here we are, 5 days later, and it's as if my Rift was taken in and vanished - not a single update in 5 days.

    On the main page they state that if the package is not going to be scanned for more than a day, information will be given as to when they next expect it to be scanned. There is no such information.

    Yet in "myUPS" account section, it just says that the package is under way in the UPS system. For 5 days? (7 if you count the two days it sat at the local collection point). Even writing off Monday for Easter, there still should be some info - what's the point of tracking?

    I could have got it to Holland on my bicycle in that time. What I dislike is that there is no contact info on the site and no way to say "what's going on, please?".

    One thing I do know is that I will never use UPS for my own deliveries. I used them once to send my Warthog to Bulgaria last year, and the updates then were also severely lacking - but they did get it there in less time than this Rift is taking to get just across the channel to Holland.

    btw if Rift 2 is released I will get it from Amazon.
    FedEx had a help line which I harrassed to no end through out my postage. Does UPS not also have a place you can call?
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 2,596 Valuable Player
    elboffor said:
    When i rma'd my touch controllers, i dropped it iff and they colied the details and made sure i had a drop off receipt.

    If in doubt tho, take a picture of the box before hand. And a picture of the box with the person you are dropping it iff with. Might not be instantly legally binding but its better than nothing.
    As far as not getting an official receipt, this is my usual answer. The least you can do is create your own proof. Always having a camera in your pocket proves to be useful very often.
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  • BrixmisBrixmis Posts: 656
    Trinity
    edited April 20
    Well if the worst had come, I had my wife as witness and I'm sure there are security cameras in that area.

    As they have booked it in and acknowledged the service was requested by Oculus, I am covered in that respect, I would just like to know where it is as I have no chance of finding out why there has been no update in 5 days. Okay lets say 4 days, I'll give them holiday Sunday and Monday.

    Makes me chuckle (sceptically) when they say to open a MyUPS account so that you get more details and options.

    I will give them 10 working days before I kick up a fuss, though.

    Update - I spotted the contact info and have sent a message asking for an update on where the parcel is - what's the betting I get "in transit" as a response?
  • falken76falken76 Posts: 1,382 Poster of the Week
    Brixmis said:
    falken76 said:
    All you need is the tracking number.  They issue what are called RS tags.  Return service tags.  Those can only be obtained by the shipper setting up the pick up.  The first 6 digits on the tracking number following the "1z" on UPS tracking is the UPS account number that belongs to oculus.  I'm sure the other couriers are similar.  If no tracking ever appears, so long as you wrote down the tracking number, you have the number that proves that Oculus created the tracking number that informed UPS/FedEx to come pick up from your house in the first place.  Nobody but Oculus could issue that tracking number, nobody.

    The tracking number IS your receipt.
    As I said, I was required to drop it off at a local shop (an "Access Point") and they don't give out receipts - same as the UPS driver who collected from me once didn't, but I know him well enough by now to trust him a little.

    Point being, if it had gone AWOL from the shop ( or thereafter if it hadn't been scanned), I would have zero proof that I had dropped it off.
    Legally, I wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

    As it is, the tracking info has just come up - and is a perfect example of why I'm sceptical. It says I dropped it off at 12:35 and it is still at the AP. The items are collected at 11:00am each day - which is why I made sure I dropped it off there in plenty of time - at 08:45 to be precise.

    So it wasn't picked up at 11:00 and now will not go until Tuesday, due to the holidays. So no, it hasn't gone missing - but I can't say I am happy with how things have gone thus far. Good job I have accepted the Rift being away for around 3 weeks (should be about 2, but I added on a week for the usual hold-ups). I could have had another few days use of it before sending it, though :/

    So how does Oculus set up the return?  Most companies will issue a return service tag, they either set it up through UPS to have the driver come retrieve the package or they send you a tag that you place on the box and take to a drop off location.  Does Oculus say to just take it to a UPS store or some such shipping location and just hand it to them with no info and no tag and you get no receipt?  Even if it was lost, you should have been given a  tracking number that you use to track the scans.  That is a return service tag that is generated by Oculus account, the packages should be insured if Oculus set this up correctly.  @cybereality can you clarify how the returns process works?  I might have to RMA my headset due to HMDI disconnect issues and I want to know how this works?  Are we given RS tags?  If not, what kind of receipt do we get?
  • falken76falken76 Posts: 1,382 Poster of the Week
    lovethis said:
    If you used a label provided by Oculus, then we track it on the back end. There is no need to worry.
    So what if the shop says you never dropped it off? What happens then? I think the OP is meaning how can you prove you handed it over in the first place.  
    Demand a receipt from the store.  If it is a UPS store, they are franchised and they must give you a receipt.  If they say they can't, call 1-800-Pick-UPS and report them.
  • BrixmisBrixmis Posts: 656
    Trinity
    edited April 20
    It's a local grocer.

    Oculus send a label - the tracking number is on the label.

    Since sending the message to UPS, they have 'updated' the tracking information.

    According to that, my Rift is still exactly where it was for the past week - at Lincoln collection point!
    Someone is seriously taking the piss:



    PS - okay, it isn't quite a week - for some reason I keep thinking it's Friday - probably because the Mrs weekend starts today. They were so happy with how well she worked on a weekday that they have made her work on a Sunday now, because apparently the weekend crew were hopeless. No extra pay or anything - barstewards. It has wrecked our family weekends and most of the time we struggle to know what day of the week it is!
  • falken76falken76 Posts: 1,382 Poster of the Week
    KillCard said:
    Brixmis said:
    Here we are, 5 days later, and it's as if my Rift was taken in and vanished - not a single update in 5 days.

    On the main page they state that if the package is not going to be scanned for more than a day, information will be given as to when they next expect it to be scanned. There is no such information.

    Yet in "myUPS" account section, it just says that the package is under way in the UPS system. For 5 days? (7 if you count the two days it sat at the local collection point). Even writing off Monday for Easter, there still should be some info - what's the point of tracking?

    I could have got it to Holland on my bicycle in that time. What I dislike is that there is no contact info on the site and no way to say "what's going on, please?".

    One thing I do know is that I will never use UPS for my own deliveries. I used them once to send my Warthog to Bulgaria last year, and the updates then were also severely lacking - but they did get it there in less time than this Rift is taking to get just across the channel to Holland.

    btw if Rift 2 is released I will get it from Amazon.
    FedEx had a help line which I harrassed to no end through out my postage. Does UPS not also have a place you can call?

    Yes UPS can be harrassed at this line: 1-800-PICK-UPS
  • BrixmisBrixmis Posts: 656
    Trinity
    edited April 20
    So - now you know how long it will take - 5 days to get 30 miles. Work out how far you are from the warehouse by road, add a few days for other incompetence and you have your estimate.
  • BrixmisBrixmis Posts: 656
    Trinity
    Ah, left Lincoln at 20:45 this evening. How encouraging!  :s
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 3,182 Valuable Player
    Fingers crossed it don't go via Liverpool or you is stuffed mate  ;)
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