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Help from the Forum - Commercial Usage of Oculus VR

kevinw729
Honored Visionary
Dear All,
I hope that the forum can help on this one.
I have been approached by a major media service that is running a report on VR, and how the commercial entertainment aspect is gaining momentum. After my interview they asked a simple question:

@xxxxx writes 2/4/17:
"...Why is Oculus VR so against Commerical application? They will not reply to our inquiries about their position on commercials usage, and we have documented numerous stories from major corporations who have abandoned all dealing with them faced with such difficulties and intransigence; is there a reason for this attitude?"

I gave them my views on the subject and pointed them to a number of discussions on this and the Reddit forum to illustrate past issues. But in doing this I wondered if anyone on the forum here had a definitive view on the reason (not conjecture), or could point to an article interview with OVR that stated their point of view?
https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
59 REPLIES 59

Zenbane
MVP
MVP
Who is this supposed "major media service" ? Because I'm pretty sure all you did was interview yourself and then refer to yourself as @xxxxx

Afterall, you have been complaining about the lack of "commercial usage" on this forum since at least 2013:
https://forums.oculus.com/community/discussion/comment/28698#Comment_28698

 5 years of the same complaint? That's some serious dedication lol

kevinw729
Honored Visionary
Oh look, Zenbane enters the post with nothing to offer and personal attack. Keep up the good work - ticktock!
https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959

I don't remember seeing any article from Oculus which lays down any rules about commercial use.  We know that Rifts are being used commercially - you have seen them and shown us photos, i have dealt with many people who use them commercially (not in the public arena).  

It seems that the media organisation you spoke to know more - they apparently know that Oculus is "against Commerical application" - what exactly do they know?  To be honest, if that is true then the conversation is pretty much over isn't it?

I know you are very interested in this Kevin, i remember sending you a copy of the GearVR booklet - what does it say in the Rift booklet on the subject - can you summarise?
Big PC, all the headsets, now using Quest 3

Zenbane
MVP
MVP

kevinw729 said:

Oh look, Zenbane enters the post with nothing to offer and personal attack. Keep up the good work - ticktock!



I think there is some value in offering insight in to the fact that you have been targeting Oculus with this complaint for so many years. This new thread attempts to present this topic anew, but it is far from new and covers a large part of your 5-year post history. This topic has been debated to death, so you really aren't offering anything new either by creating yet another thread about it.

Even in 2013 Cyber answered you:
"I don't believe this is a problem. You should be able to do what you want with the dev kit. "
https://forums.oculus.com/community/discussion/comment/28737/#Comment_28737

We can update that to 2017:
I don't believe this is a problem. You should be able to do what you want with the Oculus Rift CV1.

You also fail to explain how Oculus is "so against Commercial usage." Right now there are commercial applications on the Oculus store for Real Estate and Data Reporting:

https://www.oculus.com/experiences/rift/1145588855531274/
https://www.oculus.com/experiences/rift/1274858305906473/
https://www.oculus.com/experiences/rift/1251660221572429/


Real world commercial use of VR Headsets on Roller coasters can be seen at VR Coaster:
http://www.vrcoaster.com/




VR Coaster is fully compatible to the Samsung Gear VR headset.



Gear VR is part of the Oculus offering... so with all these facts in mind, again I ask, what is the name of this major media service that asked such a question? I'm curious to know how a "major media service" was so clueless of Oculus and Facebook's full support of commercial VR.


elboffor
Consultant
I think zenbane hit the nail on the head here. I highly doubt there is any "major media service", and i think it says a lot about your ego to think that they would aproach you and you alone.

If a major media service wanted the opinions on this forum, then im sure they would ask.

One thing i find very puzzling, what is the commercial entertainment aspect of vr? Are we referring to the future of public entertaimment which is of course "out of home VR" or the failed idea of VR Arcades
This is my forum signature.
There are many others like it, but this is mine.

kevinw729
Honored Visionary


I don't remember seeing any article from Oculus which lays down any rules about commercial use.  We know that Rifts are being used commercially - you have seen them and shown us photos, i have dealt with many people who use them commercially (not in the public arena).  
....

Thanks for the reply @Hiro - was worried that this discussion would be hijacked and trolled to try and get it closed - had a chat with @cyberreality before to ensure it was ok.

To your point – I have run pictures and info of commercial entertainment usage, but am fully aware that by the laws laid down by OVR/FB it is totally illegal to use the system for “commercial usage” (payment received for use). Where other HMD manufacturers relented (even their partner, see below), OVR has stayed intransigent, but not given any comment why? And following the Sony announcement more people started to question their interagency even to comment on their pospective.



....
It seems that the media organisation you spoke to know more - they apparently know that Oculus is "against
Commerical application" - what exactly do they know?  To be honest, if
that is true then the conversation is pretty much over isn't it?...


I was approached by the media service after my last column in VRFocus:



https://www.vrfocus.com/2017/05/the-virtual-arena-the-growing-vr-out-of-home-entertainment-dimension...



And was asked some questions generally about the Out-of-Home Entertainment market with regards VR / AR, and at the conclusion, a follow-up point was made (the gist of which I relayed above). [Note - I will not name them yet to avoid the snide attacks we have seen above].



They seemed to be on the fence – just because numerous emails and calls from them to OVR had not given them a definitive answer one way or another – no one wanted to comment on their policy for Commercial entertainment, and there seemed to be something of a disconnect (especially considering the Samsung position). So the media team asked me, I relayed the last “five years” worth of questions after the fateful “Chuck-E-Cheese” incident, and that just created more questions from the interviewers.



I thought before I gave a final comment to them on what I think has happened, I would throw it out to the crowd here and see if anything new popped up. Especially with the change in management at OVR, possibly news I had missed had been given on the impasse? Maybe it just stays the same? I just wanted to be sure I had offered a chance to the community to have a say, rather than ignore or bully them.





....
I
know you are very interested in this Kevin, i remember sending you a
copy of the GearVR booklet - what does it say in the Rift booklet on the
subject - can you summarise?



Yes, I remember you doing that – I had a client that wanted to use the GearVR for their theme park attraction (apricated your help at the time, thanks).



The OVR / Samsung statement is clear across the GearVR and CV1 – no usage of the software or hardware in commercial (pay to use) environments, and that the brand is being misrepresented if done, and the hardware/firmware illegally used if done without permission. Likewise, those that try to get permission are greeted with silence or a brick wall statement (I have a copy but not sure if able to share).



Obviously, the same existed for VIVE and PSVR, until a few months back with the creation of dedicated operation in HTC, Valve and Sony to handle the commercial utilization of their hardware/software. Samsung also has a very strong commercial entertainment position, which is open, and excludes the OVR interagency – it is suggested of the claimed 8m+ GVR’s built and still used (and not gathering dust) many of them are being run on attractions (such as the Six Flags partnership).


https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959

Ah, ok so the key thing is payment for using the Rift but business organisations can use them - thanks.

I'm quite sure they are being used and many organisations are making money - you'll know better than us and will have seen it.  Maybe Oculus just don't want to be involved and their stance is their safety umbrella?  Maybe they won't chase after organisations making money out of the Rift's use - besides, there are no large organisations making £millions yet, so why bother?

I've got a hunch - i think they too will follow suit and open such a business / commercial department - they're just a little busy and behind the others?
Big PC, all the headsets, now using Quest 3

RorschachPhoeni
Trustee
Can't @cybereality say something about it?
Excuse my bad english. I speak to you through the google translator. 😛

kevinw729
Honored Visionary

elboffor said:

I think zenbane hit the nail on the head here. I highly doubt there is any "major media service", and i think it says a lot about your ego to think that they would aproach you and you alone.

If a major media service wanted the opinions on this forum, then im sure they would ask.

I have to allow you your opinion of Zenbane - unlike he allows others to have opinions that differ from his world view - but to the point and avoiding achieving the goal of derailing the discussion.

You made a false assumption there, I never said I was approached alone - I just said I had been approached. I know they have spoken to VRStudio, TheVOID and Zero Latency, and others for comment on the Commerical Entertainment VR landscape, looking at the growing interest in out of home entertainment. I think this report proposed will coincide with the major VR / AR conference in Las Vegas in September on this sector.

I am sure if they wanted the view of the consumer VR scene they would come here but as I did say, they had asked those working in the VR scene (myself in this case) a question and I wanted to roll the community into the final comments I gave - if this is not right and you feel they should only speak directly to the community, well I have to say that is a kind of broken argument.
One thing i find very puzzling, what is the commercial entertainment aspect of vr? Are we referring to the future of public entertaimment[sp] which is of course "out of home VR" or the failed idea of VR Arcade.
We are referring about public-space, commercial entertainment also known as out-of-home entertainment. I am not sure the "idea of VR Arcade" is failed when you see IMAX VR, VRStudio, CTRL V, VR Junkies and a hoard of other "VR Arcade" venues in North America, and the tsunami of venues in Asia making serious book. But if you have information on how this is a "failed idea" - we are all ears?

Towards the insulting failed statement by your associate:

Gear VR is part of the Oculus offering... so with all these facts in mind, again I ask, what is the name of this major media service that asked such a question? I'm curious to know how a "major media service" was so clueless of Oculus and Facebook's full support of commercial VR.
Corrections:
Samsung runs their GVR in attraction project (both partnered with Six Flags and Mack Rides) separate of OVR/FB - they include however under the agreement the "powered by Oculus" brand, as found on the side of the GVR. This operation has no link to OVR/FB, other than part of the Samsung Oculus Texas agreement, but OVR has not officially commented on this commercial usage (other than in vagueries)as far as I know.

It's best not to throw words around like "clueless" without ending up eating them.
https://vrawards.aixr.org/ "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959