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Zenimax is at it again !

Mwilliams78Mwilliams78 Posts: 75
Hiro Protagonist
Im really starting to hate this company they are the bottom feeding scourge of VR. It now seems that they are going after Samsung... bunch of snakes... https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/15/15643718/zenimax-samsung-oculus-gear-vr-john-carmack-software-lawsuit

Comments

  • gibbskigibbski Posts: 34
    Lawnmower Man (or Woman)
    Good grief. Wish i had gone vive. A pox on both their houses.

    Still addicted to eso though. /sigh.
  • gibbskigibbski Posts: 34
    Lawnmower Man (or Woman)
    Here is the thing though... ok so Carmak goes to zenimax and says i have this great idea! *Pitches idea* zenimax says nope not interested theres no money in it. Carmak goes ok, ill just go do it on my own then. Zenimax says ok bye. Carmak goes and makes a shit ton of money. Zenimax looks at shit ton pile of money and says thats our money you came up with the idea while working for us. Gimme gimme.

    How does "i pitched it to you. You turned it down when you had your chance. You were wrong and you lost." Not pass as a reasonable argument?

    What am i missing here?
  • KillCardKillCard Posts: 973 Poster of the Week
    edited May 16
    gibbski said:
    Here is the thing though... ok so Carmak goes to zenimax and says i have this great idea! *Pitches idea* zenimax says nope not interested theres no money in it. Carmak goes ok, ill just go do it on my own then. Zenimax says ok bye. Carmak goes and makes a shit ton of money. Zenimax looks at shit ton pile of money and says thats our money you came up with the idea while working for us. Gimme gimme.

    How does "i pitched it to you. You turned it down when you had your chance. You were wrong and you lost." Not pass as a reasonable argument?

    What am i missing here?
    This.

    Lawyers just want to use the law to fuck people, IP Law wasn't made so that those that buyout IP's can exploit them. It was made to protect the interest of those who create things. I hate how nobody seems to get this and think "Zenimax is in the right", I mean legally they 'might' be. Morally they are the worst fucking scum on the earth for doing this.

    Just because a written law has a loop-hole you can exploit does not give you the right to go around shitting all over creativity.
  • Atmos73Atmos73 Posts: 1,777
    Project 2501
    Your brick layer says I want to make a beautiful statue for your garden. You say no thanks I just want you to build that wall were paying you to build. The brick layer builds the statue anyway in between building your wall. At the end of the week he sells the statue without you knowing even though he's used your materials and built it in the time you were paying him to build your wall. You then say hang on a minute that statue is ours as you used our time and our materials but he says you didn't want it at the time he asked. Who has rights to the statue?
  • gibbskigibbski Posts: 34
    Lawnmower Man (or Woman)
    So it's a question of who's bricks were used in the constriction of the statue? What if it was no actual bricks. To make the statue he required more bricks to be bought. When the declined to buy those extra bricks he went out and bought his own bricks. They could have bought the bricks and profited, but they close not to and lost the opportunity.
    If he did use their bricks how does he owe any more than the value of the surplus bricks?
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 7,401 Power Poster
    edited May 16
    Fair analogy, Atmos, but this is where building software differs from building in the physical realm:
    "he's used your materials and built it in the time you were paying him to build your wall."

    That doesn't necessarily match up with software development. Both the materials and the time belong to the developer (stick with me here). Bricks come from the Earth (e.g. clay) and most developers are paid a salary, not hourly. Software developers tend to work over 40 hours per week without overtime. The expectation is to meet project deadlines and milestones, not clock in hourly.

    As long as the builder delivers the expected product (the wall) then whatever else they build using materials from the Earth belongs to the builder.

    Zenimax did not invent computing, nor binary, nor any of the multiple generations of programming languages their employees use. The computing technology that Zenimax pays developers to use directly correlates to abundant material from the Earth. The statue belongs to the builder; the VR platform belongs to Carmack.

    The court already rule that Oculus/Facebook did not steal Trade Secrets. So if it isn't Zenimax's Trade Secret, then it isn't their statue.

    In fact, a better analogy is this:
    Carmack, the brick layer, built a unique type of brick to support new types of structures (VR platform). He showed it to the Customer (Zenimax) and said, "hey, let's build stuff with these new bricks." They said, "no, let's stick to the old bricks." Now Carmack is building stuff with the new bricks... and Zenimax wants his phat lewt.

    :)

    I am biased though, since I'm a software developer of nearly 20 years.
    Unbanned but never Unbaned.

  • gibbskigibbski Posts: 34
    Lawnmower Man (or Woman)
    Conversely, if im a waiter at a resteraunt and daydream of one day becoming a rock star. Then get discovered and make it big do i owe anything to to the resteraunts.because i thought aboit it while i was there. 
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 7,401 Power Poster
    gibbski said:
    Conversely, if im a waiter at a resteraunt and daydream of one day becoming a rock star. Then get discovered and make it big do i owe anything to to the resteraunts.because i thought aboit it while i was there. 
    Only if you write songs about food. Then you're fuxxed and owe royalties :p
    Unbanned but never Unbaned.

  • MadarasMadaras Posts: 567 Poster of the Week
    Zenimax..............you're making the gaming world your enemy.
  • whoa182whoa182 Posts: 380
    Trinity
    edited May 17
    Zenimax 

    CPU: i5-4690K 4.50 GHZ RAM: 8.00 GB Corsair Vengence GFX: Nvidia GTX 970 HDD: 2TB MONITOR: Samsung U28D590 27" 4K Res
  • CalmfixupCalmfixup Posts: 286
    Nexus 6
    Calmfixup said:
    To be fair: For most people it is impossible to hate Zenimax, because they don't even know who the fuck Zenimax is.
    I disappear for several months every time a new TES game comes out, so I definitely know who they are.

    Then again, I read the credits on movies and games too though lol
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 1,997 Valuable Player
    I'm very tempted to do myself a nice curry tomorrow and send them a very messy turd in a box in the post lol :smiley:
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • Gwiz84Gwiz84 Posts: 287
    Nexus 6
    This stuff is only possible in the US, your judicial system is screwed up man. Endless appeal system = person with the most money always wins.

    This shit would never fly in Europe.

    Sidenote: I'm not insulting your country in any way, but honestly the way you people sue each other over the most ridicolous things and tend to get away with it often borders on the insane.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 7,401 Power Poster
    edited May 17
    Gwiz84 said:
    This stuff is only possible in the US, your judicial system is screwed up man. Endless appeal system = person with the most money always wins.

    This shit would never fly in Europe.

    Sidenote: I'm not insulting your country in any way, but honestly the way you people sue each other over the most ridicolous things and tend to get away with it often borders on the insane.
    The European legal system is embarrassing; not to mention that in the early days of America... people were fleeing the insanity of Europe. I'm not insulting you in any way, but honestly you need to read some history books.
    Unbanned but never Unbaned.

  • FunkyLasagneFunkyLasagne Posts: 114
    Art3mis
    Zenbane said:
    Gwiz84 said:
    This stuff is only possible in the US, your judicial system is screwed up man. Endless appeal system = person with the most money always wins.

    This shit would never fly in Europe.

    Sidenote: I'm not insulting your country in any way, but honestly the way you people sue each other over the most ridicolous things and tend to get away with it often borders on the insane.
    The European legal system is embarrassing; not to mention that in the early days of America... people were fleeing the insanity of Europe. I'm not insulting you in any way, but honestly you need to read some history books.
    Doesn't change the fact that the US court system is an embarrassment (as is Europe's but thats an irrelvance)
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 7,401 Power Poster
    edited May 17
    FunkyLasagne said:
    Doesn't change the fact that the US court system is an embarrassment (as is Europe's but thats an irrelvance)
    US Court System > Europe Court System

    And it isn't a "fact" that the US Court System is an embarrassment, it's an opinion.
    Unbanned but never Unbaned.

  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 1,997 Valuable Player
    Well none of them are as good as the UK court system because we invented the whole thing. If it wasn't for us Brits you lot living in the States and Europe would be living in anarchy  :p

    And none of you would be able to tell the time either!  B)
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 7,401 Power Poster
    The history of world legal systems has always been fascinating to me. It is all one big blender of insanity.
    Unbanned but never Unbaned.

  • MadarasMadaras Posts: 567 Poster of the Week
    snowdog said:
    Well none of them are as good as the UK court system because we invented the whole thing. If it wasn't for us Brits you lot living in the States and Europe would be living in anarchy  :p

    And none of you would be able to tell the time either!  B)
    Not to pile onto the political tangent. However, Americans wanted more anarchy or as well call it "Freedom". Not freedom for the government to give us a handout, but freedom to earn and created anything we could dream of. 

    I do have a great deal of respect for english culture though. I just wish the modern english respected it more. 
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 2,402 Poster of the Week
    edited May 18
    Doesn't change the fact that the US court system is an embarrassment (as is Europe's but thats an irrelvance)
    UKs is no better... where there is blame there is a claim, Ambulance chasing cold callers trying to get you to claim you had an accident in the last 5 years and were some how injured (it seems there is no such thing as a minor accident where someone ISNT injured to the point of trying to claim 1000s these days).

    Hell, I had a scouser lying his ass off claiming he was having post tramatic stress after driving into me, he claimed flashbacks, loss of earnings due to being unable to work - and of course the usual wiplash etc.

    He nearly pulled it off as well!.

    It wont be long before an off duty doctor will be afraid to provide aid to someone because they have had a drink or  just generally uninsured when not working , just like the states for fear of being sued (that is assuming we are not there already)

    (my dad - now retired - used to clean the paths of the elderly pensioners bunglows down the road and salt the pavement... because he was a self employed builder, somoene got wind of it and the council sent a letter, telling him he would be sued should any of them fall over and injure themselves, if it could be proved he missed a bit....

    so he stopped and now the paths are an ice rink because the council never do sweet fanny adams

    Now he is retired, this winter he will be able to start doing it again !  the mind boggles.
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • vannagirlvannagirl Posts: 1,324 Poster of the Week
    Wow PTSD

    i have met people with real ptsd, driving into you.......this is an insult

    The lower end though of all justice in the west is sausage factory justice
    Look, man. I only need to know one thing: where they are. 
  • elbofforelboffor Posts: 2,284 Valuable Player
    This is my forum signature.
    There are many others like it, but this is mine.
  • MadarasMadaras Posts: 567 Poster of the Week
    edited May 19
    @elboffor
    yup freedom isn't free. These days in America people are appreciating freedom less and less "the government should arrest someone for saying something or doing something I don't like" that mentality always trying to get the government involved. No matter what the situation is minor or major. Each time you do that you chip away at freedom. Lots of people chipping away.
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 1,048
    3Jane
    The are bottom feeders that are turning this into a business. 
  • kzintzikzintzi Posts: 660
    Neo
    Us Australian's think you're all nuts :tongue: not that we can talk - the CEO of the tax office over here just got arrested for running a multimillion dollar tax fraud scheme.. #she'llberightmate

    hahahahahahahaha

    Though you are more than slightly incoherent, I agree with you Madam,
    a plum is a terrible thing to do to a nostril.
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