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Please sign for free locomotion

favanight
Protege
Just read about the upcoming games from GDC 2017:

- Arktika 1 : teleporting (Q3 2017)
- Killing floor incursion: teleporting (Q3 2017)
- Mage's tale: teleporting
- From other suns: teleporting

for me teleporting should be an option but not a must .....
128 REPLIES 128

OpticKing
Expert Trustee

KillCard said:


That issue is a fallacy, they really think people are that stupid that they can't figure out to stop using a mode that causes them to feel ill? This "my target audience is a moron" approach to development is just the wrong way to go about it. Have it optional, have it default to safe.

If they are smart enough to FIND the option to change locomotion to free, they are smart enough to know when/how they should be using it. It doesn't take a genius to figure out .. christ! I know people are stupid, but they're not THAT stupid.


That's disregarding the point that I made, about the fact that you can't have both in lots of games mechanics, without changing the entire dynamics of it. A bulk of games simply cannot work with both locomotion, without major issues, like game breaking ones. It's all up to the type of game the devs are making and if that type of game allows both motions without making one have an advantage over the other. It also depends on how deeply the devs have implemented the teleport into the gameplay. This is especially true for multiplayer games, and games that heavily use leaderboards, free locomotion users would likely need to be completely separate from teleport users. Things would obviously be simpler if less people were hit by the sickness, it seems like almost half of the user-base is hit hard by nausea in most free locomotion games. If the entire solution was everyone simply make free locomotion with teleport always as an option, don't you think just about every dev would've made it so?

DarkTenka
Trustee

OpticKing said:


KillCard said:


That issue is a fallacy, they really think people are that stupid that they can't figure out to stop using a mode that causes them to feel ill? This "my target audience is a moron" approach to development is just the wrong way to go about it. Have it optional, have it default to safe.

If they are smart enough to FIND the option to change locomotion to free, they are smart enough to know when/how they should be using it. It doesn't take a genius to figure out .. christ! I know people are stupid, but they're not THAT stupid.


That's disregarding the point that I made, about the fact that you can't have both in lots of games mechanics, without changing the entire dynamics of it. A bulk of games simply cannot work with both locomotion, without major issues, like game breaking ones. It's all up to the type of game the devs are making and if that type of game allows both motions without making one have an advantage over the other. It also depends on how deeply the devs have implemented the teleport into the gameplay. This is especially true for multiplayer games, and games that heavily use leaderboards, free locomotion users would likely need to be completely separate from teleport users. Things would obviously be simpler if less people were hit by the sickness, it seems like almost half of the user-base is hit hard by nausea in most free locomotion games. If the entire solution was everyone simply make free locomotion with teleport always as an option, don't you think just about every dev would've made it so?



I know, I get what you're saying, in the case of games like Robo Recall, the game wes developed from the ground up to be Teleport based. But the whole reason for building around teleport in the first place is the fallacy that its not feasible to support Free locomotion.

As for your last point, they didn't do so out of fear, so no they wouldn't even though they should have. However, there have already been several games who have double backed on their "motion sickness fear". Obduction added smooth rotation back into the game in an update following high demand. Arizona Sunshine also went from teleport only to full free locomotion support - multiplayer and all.

They are starting to get it... but we need to make a point, just like this thread is trying to do, so we can have AAA games that will rival that of the flat screen with all the benefits VR brings.

GreenTheftAuto
Explorer
Signed.

I played Arizona Sunshine and Onward both prior to free loco and they were a lot of fun but nothing compared to their current versions. I like the idea of all games having both options so ppl can choose. Already spent some time in Robo Recall which is an amazing game but the teleporter seems more disorienting than it was in Bullet Train, prob just need more time to play with it. 

XPS
Explorer
signed
please fix the teleport bug and also free locomotion option

PIXELATED
Adventurer
Signed - for the 'option' to have either
Win 10 Pro, GTX 1080, Asus Z170 Deluxe, Nvidia 391.35

OpticKing
Expert Trustee

KillCard said:


I know, I get what you're saying, in the case of games like Robo Recall, the game wes developed from the ground up to be Teleport based. But the whole reason for building around teleport in the first place is the fallacy that its not feasible to support Free locomotion.

As for your last point, they didn't do so out of fear, so no they wouldn't even though they should have. However, there have already been several games who have double backed on their "motion sickness fear". Obduction added smooth rotation back into the game in an update following high demand. Arizona Sunshine also went from teleport only to full free locomotion support - multiplayer and all.

They are starting to get it... but we need to make a point, just like this thread is trying to do, so we can have AAA games that will rival that of the flat screen with all the benefits VR brings.


We both agree on this subject, I was just trying to look at it objectively and find a decent reason for them not supporting it, as it's obviously not a very easy choice to implement. I would love any free locomotion support (as I've said here and in many other threads). That being said, after some hours of robo recall now, I am finding it less and less clunky/annoying. In fact it seems necessary for some of these bigger enemies and bosses, time is slowed a fraction when you're trying to teleport and you can take those few seconds to reposition to the opportune locations. (looking at you, big laser bot you can highjack with his 4 weak points on his back/legs)

Maybe I'm mistaken though, I just doubt we'll get a free locomotion update for robo (would love to be proven wrong)

Ps. When I mentioned multiplayer I was talking more about competitive, not cooperative. Imagine if onward had teleport as an option as well, you'd have complaints left and right about one being an advantage over the other.

GreenTheftAuto
Explorer

OpticKing said:


KillCard said:


I know, I get what you're saying, in the case of games like Robo Recall, the game wes developed from the ground up to be Teleport based. But the whole reason for building around teleport in the first place is the fallacy that its not feasible to support Free locomotion.

As for your last point, they didn't do so out of fear, so no they wouldn't even though they should have. However, there have already been several games who have double backed on their "motion sickness fear". Obduction added smooth rotation back into the game in an update following high demand. Arizona Sunshine also went from teleport only to full free locomotion support - multiplayer and all.

They are starting to get it... but we need to make a point, just like this thread is trying to do, so we can have AAA games that will rival that of the flat screen with all the benefits VR brings.


We both agree on this subject, I was just trying to look at it objectively and find a decent reason for them not supporting it, as it's obviously not a very easy choice to implement. I would love any free locomotion support (as I've said here and in many other threads). That being said, after some hours of robo recall now, I am finding it less and less clunky/annoying. In fact it seems necessary for some of these bigger enemies and bosses, time is slowed a fraction when you're trying to teleport and you can take those few seconds to reposition to the opportune locations. (looking at you, big laser bot you can highjack with his 4 weak points on his back/legs)

Maybe I'm mistaken though, I just doubt we'll get a free locomotion update for robo (would love to be proven wrong)

Ps. When I mentioned multiplayer I was talking more about competitive, not cooperative. Imagine if onward had teleport as an option as well, you'd have complaints left and right about one being an advantage over the other.


https://forums.oculus.com/community/discussion/50243/roborecall-locomotion-mod-v1#latest

Javelin396
Adventurer

OpticKing said:

If the entire solution was everyone simply make free locomotion with teleport always as an option, don't you think just about every dev would've made it so?



i certainly think there's a lean in that direction among developers (and even modders), to make that happen when possible and where it makes sense in development. building a game around two different styles of movement and balancing it so that it doesnt adversely affect the core gameplay for either preference must be difficult, but this seems to be yet another hurdle with developing in VR. The simple act of moving is something that we take for granted in almost any other game there is, but it obviously requires more consideration when developing in VR. Either you approach it by changing how the controls work or some other method needs to be employed so that traditional  twin stick movement becomes more comfortable for the average consumer for VR games. The latter may not even be possible to make it completely comfortable for any first time user, because if you play something like Arizona Sunshine with traditional fps controls in VR, your brain is telling you that your moving (even if its fairly slowly), but  body is telling you your not and it creates that disconnect that makes you feel the nausea. I mean you basically have to retrain your brain to get used to it if it bothers you.

Thane_
Heroic Explorer
Signed!!
Comfort options must always be there for new users, but this will never be more than a gimmick without free locomotion. Educating new users is the answer, not forced teleportation.

nAV2016
Heroic Explorer
signed even thou it might make me sick, edge of nowhere does this to me :'(
but it should be an option