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non-Clarity

HARE333
Honored Guest
So I purchased the CV1, without demo'ing it.

SDE
I fly Aces High 3, only game I play. RIFT was gonna bring new dimension to the game, which is does in spades. I mean WOW! However the SDE is killing me. I was quite surprised, this is a no brainer, why would anyone settle for such a poor display quality in an HMD.
 Now I understand the whys, I understand the limitations, I understand even why someone might convince themselves for the trade offs that were made. Been reading a lot, too much maybe.

But I cannot see into the distance in the flight game. The pixelation is exponential with distance.
You must look directly at something, up close, for any kind of clarity.
The overall FOV is fine, but the focusable area is so small that over 50% is out of focus, add the SDE  and your eyes cannot focus on much, they want to focus on something and get tired trying to and failing.
Then add in the refresh rate, 90Hz flicker OWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!
Now again, a flight game, even fields, light sky colors, it all blends to a piece of screening ocsillating rapidly......

Now I have read many things about mods and yada, I have even done my first. I made a faceplate extender cushion tonight. 
1- it will add some better comfort I hope
2- It will push the entire HMD out from my face, equidistantly, about 1/4 or 3/8". My manually pulling it out seemed to help moi.

The other thing that comes to mind is this.
Add a layer of rear projection screen material, 1 cm on top of OLED display or whatever distance your testing deems best. This material is designed to pass the light, it would provide a slight polarizing effect, theres multiple kinds. This way the fresnel lens would not see the pixel boundries, the brilliance could be increased without as much god ray issues. It can be worked into the eyecups where the displays attach, just a spacer and.......................

OCCULUS, this is a simple cheap fix, why a silly client has to point it out is just dumb. You are at the forefront of a revolution and stumbling over a very basic, untill the display tech gets to a point that sde do not matter, cheat damit!
PS: I was thinking this way and then found all the mods for this, so I am not really crazy. But the right projection material is the way to go.

Hi quality rear projection materials, plastics is waiting.............
 >:) 
30 REPLIES 30

Anonymous
Not applicable

kojack said:


snowdog said:


and the Rift also focuses into infinity, something that is ESSENTIAL for any cockpit game  😮

DK1 focuses at infinity.
DK2 focuses at 1.3m.
CV1 focuses at 2m.



Nope. That's the Focal Distance. Completely different thing. Your eyes are focusing at 2m with the CV1, so if you can see 2m in front of your face without needing glasses you won't need to use glasses when viewing stuff that appears up close or appears in the distance.

By focusing into infinity I'm talking about the way the optics and displays of the Rift make things in the far distance appear miles away, whereas the optics and displays of the Vive make things in the far distance appear A LOT closer. So if you're playing Elite Dangerous or Project CARS on a Vive stuff in the far distance only appears a few hundred feet away.

I'm probably not explaining things too well but I did plenty of research before opting for the Rift, and the majority of that research was done by following people's impressions that have/had both headsets and reported that the Vive DOESN'T focus into infinity. You REALLY notice the difference when playing cockpit based games apparently.

kojack
MVP
MVP
It was falsely reported by iFixit to be infinity on the CV1, and that spread all over the internet. Michael Abrash (Oculus Chief Scientist) stated at Oculus Connect 3 that the depth of focus of the CV1 is really 2m.


Author: Oculus Monitor,  Auto Oculus Touch,  Forum Dark Mode, Phantom Touch Remover,  X-Plane Fixer
Hardware: Threadripper 1950x, MSI Gaming Trio 2080TI, Asrock X399 Taich
Headsets: Wrap 1200VR, DK1, DK2, CV1, Rift-S, GearVR, Go, Quest, Quest 2, Reverb G2

HARE333
Honored Guest


Curious, how would a rear-projection material help here? Can you draw a diagram?

In my AV experience rear-projection materials are semi opaque so that the light can catch onto the material.


What is SDE. We are seeing the actual nest each pixel sits in, correct. Imagine a circle inside a square. The circle glows, the square is an inert fence. The fresnel lens focus's right on top of the display, as stated elsewhere , these displays really require 8" of distance for best viewing, so. By using the rear projection screen or glass you can allow the light from the pixels to expand out, it will travel out out as a cone, place the added screen where that cone of light would expand to the pixels fence line, let light mix on the screen then fresnel that.

This would deal with SDE, godray, and help contrast. Peeps been modding similarally but with inferior materials, use quality materials. Use a very clear, polorized projection material.............

If Occulus can design a special fresnel lens for rift, they can find a quality materiel for this. Hell the mod for this would just get pinched between lens and display structure. In a frame that placed the projection material at correct distance from display.

The foam extender I made helped a lot, I have old guy eyes and moving the HMD away helped considerably. The lens need front to back adjustment as well as IPD adjustment. hint hint

And no I will never not see SDE, come on folks, its a physical limitation knowingly built in. Occulus should have dealt with this upfront, chose not to. Why do you think they closed demo stations, to demo would be to kill a sale!

Occulus has done a great thing, helped start a revolution in pc veiwing but on the most primary of basics they missed the mark. How Occulus fixes and copes will be its future or not. But accepting piss poor clarity, NO!

RedRizla
Honored Visionary
@HARE333 - If this is the answer then you could make yourself rich by making a faceplate with these lenses attached.

Techy111
MVP
MVP
Piss poor clarity? No way mate. There is thousands of people using the CV1 and almost all know of the current tech limitations. I only use my cv1 for flight sims and don't notice the sde whatsoever. If people thought what you did then there would be a mass revolt and thousands of returns. But that hasn't happened. Did you say you researched fully before purchase ? Stick with it mate, you will grow into it's faults and limitations and enjoy it for what it is now. An amazing bit of kit. 😉 oooh and a quick edit........its Oculus one C 🙂
A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

HARE333
Honored Guest
There is thousands of people using the CV1 and almost all know of the current tech limitations.

ie: piss poor clarity

CV1 sales lag behind VIVE greatly.

If I had demo'ed it, which is my fault for not, I would not have purchased. Plain and simple. Its only good for social media and like drivel. For a flight sim, its tough. No my eyes will not forget!  In fact they buzzed for hours after a 2 hour session in AH.

The word choice I quoted just states my case. And many do not know. They see videos of display frames that coincide with rift and get a non SDE image. Just because some peeps are willing to accept a limitation does not make it good! I made this assumption, I assumed the pics I saw were pics thru a rift, NOT!

Listen I am not trying to be a dick. But for game play its tough. Flying AH is a whole new experience with the rift, but this poor clarity is bad for the eyes. It also needs to be a little brighter, some kind of display adjustments.......
I luv so many aspects of it, I cannot see..............

Eventually I will just mod it myself, once I have to put it down cuz its ruining my eyes, I will have nothing to loose opening it up. and yes I have the skills. After all I will change nothing electrically or program wise.

I expect Occulus to step up but they have MicroSoft syndrome, deliver/sell unfinished product and hope no one complains to much.

RedRizla
Honored Visionary
@Hare33 - When you do Mod it can you put up some pics? I might give it a go myself if I don't risk electrocuting myself. Just a couple of pics and list of materials if it's a cheap fix. Thank you!

vannagirl
Consultant
HARE333 said:


I expect Occulus to step up but they have MicroSoft syndrome, deliver/sell unfinished product and hope no one complains to much.


I think the room was with you until this

8mpc02b8se1b.jpg
Look, man. I only need to know one thing: where they are. 

Phil007
Protege
I'm interested in your mod too. SDE is something i can live with as i find VR to be awesome. But if there turns out to be a way to reduce the effect, great!
I do wonder how people are so surprised to see it though. I expected it because i can see the individual pixels on a mobile phone a lot further than an inch away.
Gaming on a big projection screen at around the resolution of the rift, it is the same effect. The distance is getting harder to decipher. I don't think your mod will be able to fix that, there just isnt the resolution. Especially i think because of the pentile pixel arrangement.
Over the years as i have upgraded my monitor resolution, the biggest effect it has had in games is the clarity in viewing distances. 
When consoles went from 480p to 720p there was a lot of complaint that text was unreadable on the 480p picture. At 720p it was readable but at 480p the font size was too small to have the clarity. Same thing applies with VR. The problem for vr being that it is an exponential increase in resolution needed.

I loved gaming when it was pixels the size of my fist. When a snooker game had 3 blue balls because the computer couldn't have enough colours on screen. I see Vr a little like this. It is the start of a new medium of gaming. The essence is there "gaming". For me the gaming is enhanced tremendously by the VR. However, the graphics fidelity is a downgrade, everything else is an upgrade. 

AS with my example of the text from 480p to 720p, i think as devs learn more and release more made for vr titles, they will find ways to show this text or information that are better suited to the resolution. EG making text larger without it looking out of place or style.


HARE333
Honored Guest
I do wonder how people are so surprised to see it though. I expected it because i can see the individual pixels on a mobile phone a lot further than an inch away. 

to be honest, I made an assumption, I assumed that this kind of thing had been dealt with. To me its the most basic thing, without a proper display, the rest is superfluous. I assumed that clarity would not be an issue, afterall its suppose to shine in a game environment. Realtime gaming is the test, if you cannot see clearly, its useless then for game purposes. I mean online, realtime against many opponents, you gotta see.
How about trying to use it as a working tool where you design parts, buildings, etc.... be dam tough as well. The lines in your drawings would conflict with the SDE...............

What if the LED pixel substrate was white instead of black, mirrored............

Japan Display, 8K res displays................

What are the chances of FaceBook offering 4K upgrades which are available.....................:/

credible, this is no longer a product in development. Oculus made the leap and deemed their product consumer ready, it ain't. They sold it as is anyways, exactly what MS does. Its my opinion, only.