03-24-2014 01:30 PM
03-24-2014 01:31 PM
"msalha" wrote:
Is it possible to simulate the low persistence for the DK1?
03-25-2014 12:32 PM
03-25-2014 02:21 PM
"nka" wrote:
thanks for the informations. Didnt understand all, but helped me understard much !
03-26-2014 10:55 AM
"Mark Rejhon" wrote:
There are two ways to lower persistence:
1. Lower persistence via strobe method. Persistence equals strobe length, one strobe per frame.
2. Lower persistence via higher refresh rate method. Persistence equals frame length (1/fps).
You can also do both. Use a higher strobe rate to reduce visible flicker or stroboscopic artifacts, as you've said.
For example, you can lower persistence via a higher refresh rate without using strobing.
60fps@60Hz full-persistence = 1/60sec = ~16.7ms
120fps@120Hz full-persistence = 1/120sec = ~8.3ms
240fps@240Hz full-persistence = 1/240sec = ~4.1ms
480fps@480Hz full-persistence = 1/480sec = ~2ms
960fps@960Hz full-persistence = 1/960sec = ~1ms
So low full-persistence numbers are possible. Some high-end HDTV's use interpolation to do this (the dreaded Motionflow effect), but someday in the future, it would be nice to do it natively (true framerate on true refresh rate), to eliminate flicker effects and stroboscopic effects, getting low full-persistence numbers. However, since that's not possible, we need to use strobing as an easier way to lower persistence without raising refresh rates to unobtainium levels.
That said, 144Hz strobed would be much nicer than 75Hz strobed. But it would be hugely demanding on GPU power, because you need framerates matching refresh rates, for the proper blur-free effect.
03-27-2014 02:29 PM
03-04-2019 01:39 PM
06-30-2023 06:05 PM
I'm hoping you can help.
I can't do displays with black frame insertion.
Disorientation in 10 minutes, nauseous in 15, pass out in 30. Its a holdover from a stroke.
Is there any way to remove BFI from the quest pro, or am I out of luck?
07-21-2023 04:17 AM - edited 07-21-2023 04:32 AM
@TenzoDog wrote:I'm hoping you can help.
I can't do displays with black frame insertion.
Disorientation in 10 minutes, nauseous in 15, pass out in 30. Its a holdover from a stroke.Is there any way to remove BFI from the quest pro, or am I out of luck?
Not yet! But by the end of the decade! We've solved the problem.
@mdrejhon wrote:"msalha" wrote:Not possible with a full-persistence display.
Is it possible to simulate the low persistence for the DK1?
UPDATE 2023: It's now possible in a prototype, thanks to technology progress!
We've helped manufacturers create experimental low-persistence sample and hold displays.
Blur reduction without BFI, without strobing, without flicker!
It simply required formerly-unobtainium refresh rates. 1000fps 1000Hz is now already in the laboratory.
We just tested 1000fps reprojection using 10:1 lagless frame generation (reprojection at 10:1).
This breakthrough (strobeless blur reduction), eliminates double-image artifacts for reprojection, AND reduces display motion blur by 90% without needing strobing.
Unfortunately, 1000fps reprojection requires a desktop GPU at the moment. A very powerful GPU -- RTX 4090 was successfully tested at 1000fps reprojection. Source code/demo included. Also, 1000Hz displays are already in the lab. Hopefully tomorrow's DLSS 4.0 and 5.0
In addition, to avoid common reprojection artifacts, we found we had to reproject from a starting frame rate of over 100fps, beyond the flicker-fusion threshold and stutter-fusion threshold.
Ergonomic flicker-free low-persistence sample&hold is the Holy Grail of simulating real life. Real life does not flicker. Real life does not strobe. Real life is like infinite frame rate. Naturally, brute-framerate sample and hold, solved the problem.
Now "low-persistence" and "flickerless sample and hold" in the very same sentence, is now successfully tested by Blur Busters in the laboratory. In 2014, I was not in any research papers. As of 2023, I am now cited in more than 25 peer reviewed papers.
Goodbye flicker-VR by year 2030.
Read more at www.blurbusters.com/framegen -- it's real.
There is a consortium (including me) that is actually currently negotiating with some vendors (e.g. NVIDIA) for a possible GDC 2025 or 2026 demo -- or some other convention. We're working to attract more sponsors for the consortium for this breakthrough, solving the GPU problem AND the display problem for low-persistence 1000fps 1000Hz sample-and-hold that is blur-free and doubleimage-free. Ergonomic blur reduction is here in the lab.